Meghan O’Gieblyn: Consciousness is the big gap, the unanswered hole in the materialist worldview.
Richard Haines: I don't know. But anyway, that was what happened.
O’Gieblyn: To prove I’m human. Are we just machines?
Haines: We did take some black and white photographs.
O’Gieblyn: Long story short, I dropped out of that Bible school. [Laughs] Which is not to say there’s nothing to the metaphor.
•••
Haines: But for some reason or other, which was never explained to me, and I didn't question it too much, they—the first one I had won, they gave him one of the panels and gave me the other.
O’Gieblyn: He was responsible for popularizing a very apocalyptic brand of evangelicalism in America called Dispensational Premillennialism.
Haines: And I was trying to get away from him rather than go towards it.
O’Gieblyn: Or even being able to hear what you think.
Haines: Yeah. Which was very little.
•••
O’Gieblyn: I do think there’s a way in which the words take over.
Haines: Still, except those were on a competitive basis.
O’Gieblyn: The soul was always a problem for the clockwork universe.
Haines: Oh, yes. It was on Puget Sound. It was a boy on a horse, an old plow horse riding at the mailbox, picking up the mail on the farm.
O’Gieblyn: Of course, yes. I’m in.