Robert Caro: So there were things that happened in that room, right at the beginning, that made everything change all of a sudden. It would have been so easy to fix.
Zhang Huan: It will become bigger or smaller, break off or completely collapse until finally disappear, because it is influenced by site, environment, time and air vibration.
Caro: Exactly. [Pauses] I couldn’t believe it.
Huan: Then I decided which parts to carve.
Caro: Not what we’re taught in textbooks, but what’s the raw, bottom, naked essence of real power?
Huan: Many things look strong and powerful on the surface but in fact are extremely vulnerable.
Caro: I hear that a lot, actually. In fact I just talked myself into getting it on Netflix.
Huan: Mao Zedong once said, “Where there is oppression, there will be rebellion. Where there is authority, there will be subversion.”
Caro: Nobody knows who he is.
Huan: The rugged leather still retains the natural energy, waiting for rebirth in the cycle.
Caro: But you also need someone who can turn that into laws. You know, a couple thousand words.
Huan: A giant is not an ordinary human being but is also an ordinary human being.
Caro: It never occurred to me that there weren’t any black people at the beach.